An interview with Samuel Okparaeke, small business director, Essex County, New Jersey
Appreciative Inquiry: 'What we are all aspiring to get.'
January 16 2020 By Abiodun Giwa '
Samuel Okparaeke
Question: Does it bother you when you see people who don’t know the difference between objective and subjective responsibility?
Answer: Subjective in what context? I say in what context? What do you mean by saying some people do not know the difference between objective and subjective responsibility?
Question: In these days, some people even in government don’t have regard for the difference between objective and subjective responsibility.
Answer: It depends on the way you put it. As a leader in government or nonprofit organization, your objective is always to serve the people you are elected or appointed to serve. I mean that is one thing. The standard thing is the need to be responsive to the needs of the people is very important. A lot of people even in government don’t understand that. I mean again that the subjective responsibility is based the individual. Some folks are smart to attend to the needs of the people and some are not. It is about personal trait about how you think about your position or job as what is supposed to matter to you. Is it to serve the public or serve yourself or personal interest? The bottom line is there is a distinction serving the people you are responsible for.
Question: What are your ethical guidelines as the small business administrator of the Essex County in New Jersey?
Answer: Again, when you say ethical guidelines, the ethical guideline is very important, and it is definitely very clear. One, is that you are to serve the public. Two, you must serve the public and everybody with the same level of attention without room for discrimination of any kind whether sexual, whether gender bias or whether it is racial. None of that. Three, you cannot use your position to have personal agenda, whether it is financial, whether it is something to get reelected or get money whatever. So, that has led to a whole lot of questions being asked about the president trying to use his position to seek revenge against his political opponent or to make money. So, we are bound by ethics. You are not to use that position to treat people differently; to not use that position take advantage to get monetary gain, do to not use that position to discriminate. You don’t use that position for nepotism or anything like that. Those are the standard thing. But again, it boils down to the president himself. If the president wants to be corrupt, if a person wants to be corrupt, he is going to be corrupt. You are a Nigerian like me. You see what happens in our country because a lot of people that are in power no ethics. It thus says in the Nigerian Constitution says you cannot engage in nepotism or corrupt or any other stuff, but individuals disregard their morals and use to be rich. A moral conflict does not matter as an individual thing. If you want to be corrupt, you will be corrupt regardless of what the ethics are.
Question: As a government official, I believe you do encounter issues of moral conflict most of the time. Can you explain one of experiences and how you have handled such problems?
Answer: Ok, I will give you a perfect example. Again, like I said, I am a Nigerian. I have had a lot of my country people that came here to me for assistance. They come here and ask me to see if they can get a contract. A lot the people that come here based on the guidelines that I have are not qualified for it. When I explain to them these are the things you need to get a contract with the county or the state whatever, they want to sidestep that and basically asking for favor because you are from the same place and from the same country and we got here we struggled together whatever that I should make an exception and provide them the opportunity to get a contract without going through the normal avenue of getting a contract. So, things like that. In my position you get of all these moral conflicts all the time. Friends want favor. Family members wants favor. But at the end of the day, you must realize that your job is to serve everybody. I can help take you through the process of trying to get what you need, but I cannot stay here, and I accept a bribe, or give you favor, because we are from the same place. Because everything they believe I need to mention go against the law. So, nobody can be in a position of leadership without having the moral conflict every day. Like I said you are guided by your own conscience. Because the rules are clear. And, we all know it. It is whether you choose the ethics that will protect against the difference.
Question: We have about four different ethical theories that are applicable in day to day operations. They are Teleology, Deontology, Justice and fairness and Virtue-based theories. Which of these theories do you apply most often?
Answer: What did you call it?
Question: The Teleological, Deontological, Justice and fairness and the Virtue-based theories. ……
Answer: When you do any of these things, for me I believe it is good I stand up to what I believe my core beliefs are. I believe that I am willing to do whatever I am required to do legally to help someone. But you cannot let them whatever the circumstances are. But I will not compromise my integrity to do so. There must be some legal or moral boundaries. We deal with federal funds and state funds. If you account for them properly, they believe you will be held responsible. And so, ……
Question: one can come in and come to your office after coming through the police check. What role does openness and transparency play in your day to day activities?
Answer: In terms of? I can get the question.
Question: What role do openness and transparency play in your day to day activities?
Answer: Again, like I said, government is meant to serve the people. In terms of openness, transparency is one of the most things, because if you are not transparent, people have. It is what it is it. You have some set of rules you follow, and those rules are to support your operations and people must know what you are doing. Personally, a lot of things we do on the website and a lot of thing we do… There is no kind of secret or anything like that. Transparency is equals to accountability. Because if you have no transparency, there is no accountability. For you to be a good leader in a public atmosphere. Even if it is in a company, there must be an amount of transparency. People must know they can trust the leadership. And without transparency. You must be transparent. You must make sure that everything you do will stand the test some questioning.
Question: These days, we talk about people living beyond their means. How do you think people or government living beyond their means affect humanity and governance?
Answer: Well, two things. As a person, if you are living beyond your means, let us say you earn $25,000 a year. And you are driving around in a Mercedes-Benz that costs three times, you are living beyond your means, because you simply cannot afford it. And you must pay the bill. It means something must give way. As a government that is why we have the problem whatever the problem we have today. Typically, the service of a government is to provide services. It is not only to spend the money. So, most of the time you collect taxes, and the amount you spend must commiserate with your revenue. If it is not you will have a deficit. United States as a whole, it has been on that step in which we live on borrowed money. Year after year; and after year, and after year, we have been living beyond our means. If you look at their American budget, what the taxpayers pay and what they spend. America has been in the red. Even the State of New Jersey. The only difference is that the Constitution mandates the state budget to be balance. But, are those budgets real? They are not, because the expenditure always outweighs the taxes that they collect. If you run your business in the way government runs its business, you go bankrupt. The government has a way of printing money to meet the shortfall, we as individuals cannot do that. My grandfather used to say you have to cut your coat according to your size. Most people don’t that. Generally, government does not that.
Question What role does collaboration play, especially concerning the new Appreciative inquiry. I don’t know if you have heard about that.
Answer: No, I have not.
Question: The new Appreciative Inquiry talks about co-equal – equality in a place of work, making all feel a sense of belonging, disregarding the top-down system in which the directors, managers tag are out and anyone can be free ask questions without a feeling of intimidation.
Answer: Again, I can tell you something from my own personal experience. Realistically, it is a reminder of anti-discriminatory laws to guard against all biases. Everybody should be treated equally. Everybody should have an avenue in an environment of work where you feel appreciated, where you can ask question and where you can get equal treatment. That is the goal that everyone is trying to achieve, whether government or private entity. The reality is that people don’t to do without biases. It is a good thing to work in an environment where you feel you are a part of the team, where you feel respected, where you ask questions, where you feel happy to work to make the difference. All that is good. That is what I feel that we all aspire to get. That is something that the law wants us to be doing. To make sure there is no favoritism and discrimination. But, the reality of it is that I can set up my department anyway I want. No one is going to question what I do unless someone reports they are being treated discriminately or whatever. When you give people the ability to be able to speak up, to feel happy where you work and feel a sense of belonging. That is absolutely the goal. Do we know how to accomplish it? Absolutely not. Is it something that is required by law? Yes.
*An interview with Samuel Okparaeke, small business director, Essex County, New Jersey. part of Rutgers University School of Public Affairs and Administration Public Ethics class for the Fall of 2019
Answer: Subjective in what context? I say in what context? What do you mean by saying some people do not know the difference between objective and subjective responsibility?
Question: In these days, some people even in government don’t have regard for the difference between objective and subjective responsibility.
Answer: It depends on the way you put it. As a leader in government or nonprofit organization, your objective is always to serve the people you are elected or appointed to serve. I mean that is one thing. The standard thing is the need to be responsive to the needs of the people is very important. A lot of people even in government don’t understand that. I mean again that the subjective responsibility is based the individual. Some folks are smart to attend to the needs of the people and some are not. It is about personal trait about how you think about your position or job as what is supposed to matter to you. Is it to serve the public or serve yourself or personal interest? The bottom line is there is a distinction serving the people you are responsible for.
Question: What are your ethical guidelines as the small business administrator of the Essex County in New Jersey?
Answer: Again, when you say ethical guidelines, the ethical guideline is very important, and it is definitely very clear. One, is that you are to serve the public. Two, you must serve the public and everybody with the same level of attention without room for discrimination of any kind whether sexual, whether gender bias or whether it is racial. None of that. Three, you cannot use your position to have personal agenda, whether it is financial, whether it is something to get reelected or get money whatever. So, that has led to a whole lot of questions being asked about the president trying to use his position to seek revenge against his political opponent or to make money. So, we are bound by ethics. You are not to use that position to treat people differently; to not use that position take advantage to get monetary gain, do to not use that position to discriminate. You don’t use that position for nepotism or anything like that. Those are the standard thing. But again, it boils down to the president himself. If the president wants to be corrupt, if a person wants to be corrupt, he is going to be corrupt. You are a Nigerian like me. You see what happens in our country because a lot of people that are in power no ethics. It thus says in the Nigerian Constitution says you cannot engage in nepotism or corrupt or any other stuff, but individuals disregard their morals and use to be rich. A moral conflict does not matter as an individual thing. If you want to be corrupt, you will be corrupt regardless of what the ethics are.
Question: As a government official, I believe you do encounter issues of moral conflict most of the time. Can you explain one of experiences and how you have handled such problems?
Answer: Ok, I will give you a perfect example. Again, like I said, I am a Nigerian. I have had a lot of my country people that came here to me for assistance. They come here and ask me to see if they can get a contract. A lot the people that come here based on the guidelines that I have are not qualified for it. When I explain to them these are the things you need to get a contract with the county or the state whatever, they want to sidestep that and basically asking for favor because you are from the same place and from the same country and we got here we struggled together whatever that I should make an exception and provide them the opportunity to get a contract without going through the normal avenue of getting a contract. So, things like that. In my position you get of all these moral conflicts all the time. Friends want favor. Family members wants favor. But at the end of the day, you must realize that your job is to serve everybody. I can help take you through the process of trying to get what you need, but I cannot stay here, and I accept a bribe, or give you favor, because we are from the same place. Because everything they believe I need to mention go against the law. So, nobody can be in a position of leadership without having the moral conflict every day. Like I said you are guided by your own conscience. Because the rules are clear. And, we all know it. It is whether you choose the ethics that will protect against the difference.
Question: We have about four different ethical theories that are applicable in day to day operations. They are Teleology, Deontology, Justice and fairness and Virtue-based theories. Which of these theories do you apply most often?
Answer: What did you call it?
Question: The Teleological, Deontological, Justice and fairness and the Virtue-based theories. ……
Answer: When you do any of these things, for me I believe it is good I stand up to what I believe my core beliefs are. I believe that I am willing to do whatever I am required to do legally to help someone. But you cannot let them whatever the circumstances are. But I will not compromise my integrity to do so. There must be some legal or moral boundaries. We deal with federal funds and state funds. If you account for them properly, they believe you will be held responsible. And so, ……
Question: one can come in and come to your office after coming through the police check. What role does openness and transparency play in your day to day activities?
Answer: In terms of? I can get the question.
Question: What role do openness and transparency play in your day to day activities?
Answer: Again, like I said, government is meant to serve the people. In terms of openness, transparency is one of the most things, because if you are not transparent, people have. It is what it is it. You have some set of rules you follow, and those rules are to support your operations and people must know what you are doing. Personally, a lot of things we do on the website and a lot of thing we do… There is no kind of secret or anything like that. Transparency is equals to accountability. Because if you have no transparency, there is no accountability. For you to be a good leader in a public atmosphere. Even if it is in a company, there must be an amount of transparency. People must know they can trust the leadership. And without transparency. You must be transparent. You must make sure that everything you do will stand the test some questioning.
Question: These days, we talk about people living beyond their means. How do you think people or government living beyond their means affect humanity and governance?
Answer: Well, two things. As a person, if you are living beyond your means, let us say you earn $25,000 a year. And you are driving around in a Mercedes-Benz that costs three times, you are living beyond your means, because you simply cannot afford it. And you must pay the bill. It means something must give way. As a government that is why we have the problem whatever the problem we have today. Typically, the service of a government is to provide services. It is not only to spend the money. So, most of the time you collect taxes, and the amount you spend must commiserate with your revenue. If it is not you will have a deficit. United States as a whole, it has been on that step in which we live on borrowed money. Year after year; and after year, and after year, we have been living beyond our means. If you look at their American budget, what the taxpayers pay and what they spend. America has been in the red. Even the State of New Jersey. The only difference is that the Constitution mandates the state budget to be balance. But, are those budgets real? They are not, because the expenditure always outweighs the taxes that they collect. If you run your business in the way government runs its business, you go bankrupt. The government has a way of printing money to meet the shortfall, we as individuals cannot do that. My grandfather used to say you have to cut your coat according to your size. Most people don’t that. Generally, government does not that.
Question What role does collaboration play, especially concerning the new Appreciative inquiry. I don’t know if you have heard about that.
Answer: No, I have not.
Question: The new Appreciative Inquiry talks about co-equal – equality in a place of work, making all feel a sense of belonging, disregarding the top-down system in which the directors, managers tag are out and anyone can be free ask questions without a feeling of intimidation.
Answer: Again, I can tell you something from my own personal experience. Realistically, it is a reminder of anti-discriminatory laws to guard against all biases. Everybody should be treated equally. Everybody should have an avenue in an environment of work where you feel appreciated, where you can ask question and where you can get equal treatment. That is the goal that everyone is trying to achieve, whether government or private entity. The reality is that people don’t to do without biases. It is a good thing to work in an environment where you feel you are a part of the team, where you feel respected, where you ask questions, where you feel happy to work to make the difference. All that is good. That is what I feel that we all aspire to get. That is something that the law wants us to be doing. To make sure there is no favoritism and discrimination. But, the reality of it is that I can set up my department anyway I want. No one is going to question what I do unless someone reports they are being treated discriminately or whatever. When you give people the ability to be able to speak up, to feel happy where you work and feel a sense of belonging. That is absolutely the goal. Do we know how to accomplish it? Absolutely not. Is it something that is required by law? Yes.
*An interview with Samuel Okparaeke, small business director, Essex County, New Jersey. part of Rutgers University School of Public Affairs and Administration Public Ethics class for the Fall of 2019
